Talk:Pillars of Eternity handwear

From Pillars of Eternity Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Comtessa's Gage[edit source]

There is no mention of comtessa's gage, hidden in the vithrack tunnel in mines in WM2 -- Preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 21:46, 29 December 2017‎ (UTC). Please sign your posts with -- ~~~~.

They are listed under gauntlets, which is correct.
Please sign your post next time with ~~~~. -- UserCCCSig.png -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 12:17, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Why the revert? I was putting in locations and everything. The cargo template is honestly not as useful as the default table, and much harder to edit.Mentaltyranny (talk) 08:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

See UserProfile:Mentaltyranny. Using cargo templates means not having to enter the same information multiple times across the item page itself and any other pages which might reference it (e.g. this one). As people are adding and editing item pages all the time, keeping all this data in sync and up to date isn't really feasible. With cargo, data entered on pages is propagated to tables, and their formatting is unified, both across similar tables and in regards to the actual data and how it is presented. The whole idea is that you shouldn't have to create or edit these tables in the first place, only the data on the other end.
Regarding locations, I've mentioned this in my comment on your profile. This requires that the data is moved into the cargo table/database before it can be presented template-side. Once this is done I can make the necessary edits to the cargo template. Macklin (talk) 01:49, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I am trying to learn to be an effective wiki contributor, but I am an attorney by profession, so I am figuring things out myself and hopefully with the help of others. Just so you know, I was only trying to bring the PoE1 gloves page in-line with PoE1 Headgear, which also removed arbitrary distinctions between hats, helmets, and hoods, and has locations. However, the glove page has 2 entries for Ryona's Vambraces, and missing gloves entries like Celebrant's Gloves and Spiderfinger Gloves. I have no idea how correct this on cargo templates. I don't even know how to link in these discussion pages. Mentaltyranny (talk) 06:40, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
I have examined the cargo templates the best I can without technical knowledge, and am convinced they are broken. They spit out duplicates like Ryona's Vambraces and Gywn's Band of Union, just checkout the Gloves and Ring pages. Those two pages also miss items like Celebrant's Gloves, Spiderfingers, Orlan's Bramble Ring, and Serel's Ring, and even the misses Frigid Claim entirely. This is the errors I have found during the day or two of item allotting my character builds.
The problem is I cannot fix them. I know cargo templates pull from the item entries, which sound great, but they appear to not be doing so. I thought they might be pulling from the Item ID, because that would explain Frigid Claim, but it does not explain the duplicate entries nor the missing ones. All I know is it is not pulling from item templates or the categories pages.—Mentaltyranny (talk) 04:28, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
Apologies for the delay, I've been away and haven't had internet access for a little while.
Your intentions in editing this page were good, and I have absolutely no problem with this. In fact I fully support the merging of tables (having them split was annoying) and addition of location data - but as I said, we've been working towards having these tables be dynamically generated, and the benefits that it brings. Sorry if the reverts came off as dismissive.
Briefly, I just want to describe what cargo is and how it is implemented. Cargo provides us a way to store data in tables and perform queries on it. The tables and their fields are commonly, but not always, defined in infobox templates (appears as the box on the right hand side of most articles). Templates are simply a way to transclude content inside an article. In this case, gloves, rings, and other items in poe are "stored" via the Template:Infobox item template. When this template is present on a page, the parameters that are passed with it are added to a unique entry in the associated cargo table. However entries aren't defined by an ID or any unique identifier (although they are commonly queried by page name, since having more than one of the same infobox on a page is very unusual), and are only tied with the presence of the template on a page. Values and entries in the cargo table are updated as changes to the template are made. Queries on cargo tables are done within Category:Cargo templates, which fetch the data data via a cargo query and format it for display on the page. On this page, the template Template:Cargo items fetches the items with the item types "Gloves", "Gauntlets" or "Bracers" and displays the results in a table.
Cargo has its quirks though, especially with evolving wikis like this one. I'll get into the specifics below.
To touch on a few of your concerns:
  • Regarding how to "edit" cargo templates. If you mean editing the data within a cargo table, this is done in the infobox template on the associated item page. Changes are propagated to queries over time (e.g. this page), but you can view the results immediately by doing a "null edit" on the page containing the query - simply enter edit mode and then click save changes without making any changes to the page or the edit summary. You may need to do this twice if the formatting gets messed up and turned into a bunch of text. This only occurs if you have viewed this page previously, and is only shown for you, so don't panic (it has something to do with page caching).
  • Duplicate entries (e.g. Ryona's Vambraces and Gwyn's Band of Union) are something that has plagued cargo for a while. It generally is due to changes in the cargo template and field definitions, which then causes updates to the page to register as a new entry rather than a change to an existing one. Unfortunately there's not much the end user can do about it, and the only solution I've found that works is to re-generate the table (which is something I can do on my end). However this isn't something that should be done frequently, as it puts a lot of strain on the server. Regenerating the Item_poe1 table will be something I do after all item pages have been updated with the location changes.
  • Missing entries can be fixed by performing a null edit on the item page (or a regular edit if needed). I've just done this with Frigid Claim, and it now appears in the cargo table and in Pillars of Eternity rings (after a null edit on this page too, but it isn't required). I think a lot of these cases were because the page (and the templates within) existed before the cargo table was added. I'll go through and update any other missing entries tomorrow, or feel free to do this yourself.
  • Your change to Bartender's Ring is correct. If you plan on making similar changes in the future, could I ask that you also move the description field, and remove excess line breaks (where applicable)? See my change to Frigid Claim for an example.
As a side note, I would very much recommend switching to the source editor instead of using the visual editor. While the visual editor is good for certain things, it doesn't show the full picture when it comes to templates and formatting.
Let me know if there's anything I missed, or if there's something else that needs clarification. To consolidate things, further replies should be made here and not the user page. ;) Macklin (talk) 11:23, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I think I understand. You would be surprised, as an attorney, how much this web editing reminds me of statutory construction. However, I have been trying to learn the visual editor first, then the source editor. But as you can see from the progression of work, I am learning. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by null edit? I think I get the rest, that one is just over my head...—Mentaltyranny (talk) 09:13, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
To perform a null edit, simply click "Edit" (or "Edit Source") on the top of the page, then click "Save changes" without changing anything. Since there were no actual changes, it won't be stored as a page revision, but it will refresh any templates on the page, and cause cargo to update existing or create new entries for the page. Macklin (talk) 04:13, 15 December 2019 (UTC)